Pam:

You’re listening to the flourish and grow to CEO podcast. This is episode six.

Are you a lady boss making 50 to a hundred thousand in your business? And you’re ready to break through that six figure barrier.

Jane:

Have you done a great job of creating a nice life as the ultimate gig master, but no, your inner CEO is calling you to greater Heights. You’re in the right place. If you want to create and implement solid fundamentals in your business without sacrificing fun.

Pam:

I’m Pam Ivey, I’m certified in small business management and I concentrate in the areas of training and certifying real estate assistance, coaching and mentoring entrepreneurs in online business, marketing growth and profit acceleration. And I take men and women business owners aged 40 plus two bucket list destinations around the world for a month at a time to work, explore, and live in community.

Jane:

And I’m Jane, Garee known as the sales strategist for the non-salesperson. And I work with business owners who want to increase their conversion rate, shorten their sales cycle and have more impact and influence with the work they do. Oh, well having more fun with selling, Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of flourish and grow to CEO. I’m Pam Ivy, and I’m doing Gary and we’re so delighted that you have come back to listen to us today. We are talking about, well, they’re all important topics, but super important topics, because one is a passion of my partner, Jane, we’re going to be talking about sales and then we’re going to be talking about leadership and team. So without delay, I’m just going to let Jane go. Cause she is definitely the sales expert, sales, all things sales. I love sales. This is going to be a really fun episode because I’m going to get behind my pulpit here and just school, everybody up on sales and sales conversation and selling and why it is one of the most important things that you can do for your business.

Jane:

But while it is really important, it also can be incredibly fun. So my goal and intention here today is really to get everybody, to see how enjoyable a sales conversation can be. And what does selling really mean? What is selling and what is it not? So can I just start there, Pam? Absolutely take it away. All right. So sales has gotten such a bad rap over the years for all the reasons that we know that it has. And a lot of business owners, when they start thinking about having sales conversations, it just, they get everything from butterflies in the stomach to use something stuck in the back of their throat because they’re thinking, Oh, this is the last thing that I really want to be. I don’t like having sales conversations. I don’t want to sell, I don’t want to be a salesperson. And I understand all of that.

Jane:

However, I would really love for you to start thinking in terms of sales, as something that is really just serving people at the highest level, because that’s what sales is. It truly is just serving people at a very, very high level. I always like to define sales conversation is changing the world one person at a time. And what I mean by that is a sales conversation is a one-on-one interaction with somebody. And when that person steps into what they were meant to do. And when that person decides to say yes to themselves, through you, they are changed. The work that they do with you is going to create a significant transformation. And when they experienced that transformation, they are now going to go out into the world, doing what they were called to do. And by nature of that, they’re going to be serving other people.

Jane:

So make no mistake. A sales conversation really has a very large ripple effect. You’re going to serve them. You’re going to give them the confidence they need to serve their clients and on and on. So sales, it’s a really big deal. And it’s a really big deal because it has a positive impact on so many other people than just the one person that becomes your client. So starting with all of that, all right. So if we just work with the premise that sales is serving, there are three things that I want to teach you today that will help you have much more effective sales conversations. You’ll be able to serve more people and you’ll be able to have a lot more fun when you’re actually engaged in a sales conversation. So number one, and this one is a really big myths that a lot of people get tangled up in and therefore it ruins or just makes the sales on a conversation very uncomfortable.

Jane:

So the myth is this. You have to go for the close, you have to sign this person up. You have to get their credit card. So a lot of people are still under the misguided notion that when you get into a selling conversation, got to close, gotta close, gotta close. You got to make sure it has this wrapped up ending where they become your client. And now you put so much pressure on yourself, right? Yeah. You put so much pressure on yourself and unfortunately, or fortunately, really nothing could be further from the truth, your goal isn’t to get into a sales conversation with somebody and close them. I’m going to say that again because a lot of you probably just want one, but I want to say this again, because this is 100% true. Your goal. When you get into a sales conversation is not to close that person or enroll that person.

Jane:

I know that’s really counterintuitive. And a lot of you have gotten sales training. That’s kind of like this hardcore, make them see the value and get them to say yes, and this kind of just really forceful energy. And you can get people to say yes, and you can get people to give you their credit card. But when you come at it with that kind of energy, when you try to convince them, you try to really get them to see your point of view and why they need you and why they should plunk down their money. You will get yeses on the front side. But what happens on the backside is this can lead to not so satisfactory relationships, people ask for chargebacks, they get cranky. They’re not going to provide you with referrals. They regret having done it. So, and that’s when you feel yucky to, right?

Jane:

Of course. Yeah. So I want to change the narrative on this a little bit. And I want everybody hearing me and listening to us today, Pam, I really want you to understand the purpose of a selling conversation. The purpose of a discovery session is to have a really rich conversation that you facilitate and guide that allows the prospect to get to their truth so they can make an informed and committed decision. At that point, you guide and facilitate a conversation that allows somebody to get to their truth so they can make an informed and committed decision in light of the conversation. Here’s the thing people frequently get confused between a goal and an objective. A goal is simply a natural outcome of the objectives being met. So for example, if you wanted to lose 10 pounds, your goal would be to lose 10 pounds, but your objective would be to get up every day to clean up your nutrition, to eat properly and to get some exercise in.

Jane:

So if you met your objective every day for, I don’t know, how long does it take time every day for say 30 days, you met your objectives every day for 30 days, you would meet your goal of losing 10 pounds. When you understand this, it’s going to take the pressure off of your conversations or your discovery sessions. And when you understand this, you are going to be able to go into a conversation fully equipped and excited about what will happen or what potentially could happen. So again, be very clear on your objective. When you go into a consultation sales conversation, your objective is to have a really rich, rewarding conversation that will allow the other person to get to their truth and then make a committed and firm decision. From that point, when you have enough of those conversations with people, you will meet your goal of the number of enrollees you need in your program or the number of clients you need to hit a certain income level.

Jane:

Really, really key distinction there. People are not paychecks. So please do not treat them like that. People are not paychecks. This goes back to understanding that your objective is to have the conversation so they can make a decision. The goal is what’s going to naturally happen or occur as a result of meeting your objectives. So if you’re going into a conversation fully committed to the process, fully committed to let me guide and facilitate this conversation so I can help this person get to their truth so they can make a decision from that point. Then you are going in to serve that person. You are going in with an objective to make sure that you are providing service level at the very highest realm for this person. You are going in with an objective that you’re going to listen, that you’re going to ask really good questions, and you’re going to help guide them through a thought process that will allow them to either step into what you’re inviting them to step into or not.

Jane:

And as long as you’re committed to the process and to the objective, regardless of what happens in the outcome, you will be fine. You’re actually going to be better than fine. You’re going to be great because when you do that enough times, number one, your goal is naturally going to be met. Number two, you will never again, have a conversation that feels yucky to you or yucky and uncomfortable to them. That is going to get you further referrals that is going to get you people who would say, you know what? This may not be for me. This isn’t for me or us working together just doesn’t feel like a great fit, but this was an amazing conversation. I will remember this when the time is right when I’m ready, I’ll come back. Or I know somebody who would be really interested or who could really use your service. So number one, stop going for the close stop, going for the enrollment. Just stop trying to get people’s credit card numbers, go in and meet your objective of having a really rich conversation that will get them to their truth so they can make an informed and impassionate decision from.

Pam:

I love it. So no is okay.

Jane:

No, it’s totally okay. In fact, if you’re not getting some nos, there’s something probably a little out of alignment with your overall business plan. It could be your, it could be, your prices are too low. It could be that you’re not stretching yourself enough. That’s what’s really interesting about it is it’s it’s a bit counterintuitive, but if you’re not encountering some nos, then what I would say as a sales consultant coming in, I’d say, let’s look at your entire business because if you’re not, if you’re really not getting know something’s off, we need to kind of shake things up a little bit. So yeah, go for the, no, you should be getting those

Pam:

That really takes the pressure off. I love it. I love that goal is to have that conversation and get to the truth, as you say, or have that person really sit comfortably in their decisions.

Jane:

Yes. Sit comfortably in their decision. No is okay. And you should be fine with a no, which would bring me to my second point. And this is the, this is another place where people start getting tangled up. You have to work with people who are going to be a really good fit for you. I can not impress this upon people enough. How I usually say it to my clients is they’re going to be really great people who are very bad fits. What that means is these are cool people, man, you’d go have a cocktail with them. You’d go shopping with them. If you’re like, man, because I love to shop, you know, whatever you would go hang out with them. They’re a great person, but they’re not a good fit. The problem that they have really isn’t something that you can solve. It may just be a little bit off.

Jane:

It doesn’t feel like the chemistry is there. It’s close. And because it’s a really good person, the temptation is always, Hey, let me go ahead and get this person enrolled in working with me because you like them as a human, but it’s not enough to like somebody as a human. When you’re in business, you need to be 100% certain that the problems they have can be solved by you. And you need to be 100% certain that if you solve those problems, you are going to be the best person to take on that challenge of solving those problems. So great person, not a good fit. There’s no offer. Don’t offer that person. Anything. This is not somebody you’re working with. This is a future referral partner. It’s a future colleague. It could be a future JV partner. I mean, you’ve got the chemistry, you like each other, but the actual business fit for them becoming a client.

Jane:

Not great. So I want everybody to feel fully confident that you can say, no, you can say no. Or they may be saying no to you because you feel it. And that is okay. That’s a great person, not a good fit. Now the reverses, you could have somebody who’s a really good fit. They clearly need your help. They clearly need your service. The problems that they have, you absolutely could solve. You’re the best person to solve them. All of that is lining up. I can help them. This would be an amazing client, good fit. However, that person and I don’t mean bad person in a judgmental way. What I mean there is there’s something off with the chemistry. Maybe they’re just showing up with some energy. You don’t really love. I don’t like working with people who are pessimistic and are constantly trying to figure out how things are not going to work.

Jane:

That’s not a good fit for me. So somebody who shows up in my world in a discovery call, if they can’t see the possibility, if they’re not fully committed to jumping in, if they kind of feel the fear and do it anyway, they have to have all of that criteria. Otherwise they’re not a good fit for me. So people that say, well, I’ve tried sales before and I hate it. Or I really just don’t want to be a sales person. I don’t want to be one of those people. I wish I could just outsource this. That’s an energy and an attitude that is not a great fit for me. So the service that I could provide, maybe spot on, I can understand and diagnose that. Yes, they need to work with me, but I don’t really want to take this person on as a client so that somebody who is a good fit, not such a great person for you.

Jane:

So if I recap that what you’re looking for are people who are a good fit and a good person, good client, I should say. So you’re going to have great people, not a good fit. Don’t work with them, no offer. Then you’re going to have a really great fit. Not such a good person. Don’t work with them. No offer your criteria for putting an offer out to somebody is this. They’re a great person and they are a great fit. Meaning you can see every time they show up in your email inbox or on your phone going, Hey, cool. It’s Pam. What are what Pam wants? I love Pam. She’s so fun. I really enjoy our sessions. She listens to what I said. She implements what I tell her to do. She, she hears me. We get it. We have fun. You know, what’s a good client. The synergies there, that’s a great fit. If you feel like that’s going to happen for you and the solutions that you come up with for them are on, then you’re good. Those people get an offer. Everybody else you say no to.

Pam:

I love it. Absolutely. Because if you just gave us permission to say no to people, really it has to be a good fit because I’ve worked with clients that literally make me cry. Every time I got off the phone with them and you know, we’re at a point in our lives and our businesses that we don’t need to be doing. That kind of thing.

Jane:

We do not need to be doing that type of thing. I always liken this to dating. So for those of you who are single, you’re really going to recognize this. For those of you who are married, you’ll remember this, but women in particular are notorious for doing this. So check this out. You go on a date, you sit down, you’re across the table from this guy. And what do we think is women? Oh, I wonder if he likes me. Wonder if he thinks I’m pretty. I wonder if he’s wondering, I wonder what he, I wonder what he, I wonder what he, you know, it’s all this wondering about what does he think of me? Who does he perceive me to be? And the focus in the date, on the date, that’s wrong because the question should actually be, what do I think of him? So your power comes from, what do I think of him not, Oh, I wonder what he thinks of me.

Jane:

Right? We get all, woo. We get all flighty. Like, what does he think? What’s he think? What do I think, what do I want? What do I need? That is a very healthy way to go about the dating process so that you don’t forget that you are the most important person in that equation. In the moment when you’re trying to suss out, is this somebody I want to continue to spend time with. So ladies, first of all, do that. If you’re dating, if you’re dating, just remember, what do I want? What do I need? What do I think I’m not a relationship and dating coach. However, I have clients who are, and they’ve trained me up on that. So there you go. So do that. If your day, I’ve got to remember that, okay, I need, what do I think of him? That’s as we got to look at us first in that kind of situation, it’s not selfish.

Jane:

It’s smart. So do that in dating, and then you do it in a sales conversation. What do I think of working with this client? How do I perceive this relationship that I’m going to get into with my client? How do I perceive that as going to be, what will I feel like when I see this person’s number, pop up on my phone, their name, pop up on my email address. What do I want when it comes to working with clients? What do I need when it comes to working with clients? So the sales conversation, it is a vetting process. They are vetting you. Yes. However, I want you to remember that you are vetting them. Can you see working with them? So this is why I always go to people are not paychecks. Don’t look at them that way. Look at them as this is somebody I’m going to have to get into a relationship with.

Jane:

And it’s going to be ongoing for a little bit of time. Don’t make the mistake of thinking, Oh, okay. If I take on this client, because I really, really need the money. So I’m making a financial decision really more than making a business decision. A financial decision is I need the money. The business decision is this is a good fit for me. It’s a good person. I think this would be a good relationship to create. I’m the provider, they’re the client. If you don’t make the decision through that lens, you’re making a financial decision and they will absolutely come back to bite you. And why do I know this? I’ve done this. I have absolutely done this, especially in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah.

Pam:

That is so awesome. Jane. I think just what you’ve taught today, alone is going to like blow some minds, um, and really change people’s outlooks when they’re approaching a sales conversation with their potential clients or not potential clients, potential friends. Yeah.

Jane:

Don’t give your power in a way. Don’t give your power away. You’re not desperate for clients. Just like, you’re not desperate for a man. You know? So don’t do that to yourself. Remember who you are, you have value you have inherent worth and what you provide and what you bring to this relationship, because it’s always a relationship between the service provider and the client, especially in our, in our industry, the coaching and consulting industry, take a stand for yourself. Use it as a vetting process. Do you want to get into a relationship with this person? How would you really feel

Pam:

Whether you’re a coach or consultant or virtual assistant or what have you? It’s a pretty close relationship with our clients. So we need them. We need it to be a fun, productive relationship,

Jane:

A fun, productive relationship. That’s that’s two-sided back to that dating analogy. It should be mutually fun. Both people should say this was great. Both people should be saying, I really enjoy our time together. Both people should be saying, you’re filling the need that I have. I enjoy. I anticipate knowing and looking at my calendar and seeing that we’re going to get together. Same exact

Pam:

Love it. I’d love to hear what people are thinking about as they’re listening to you talk about sales. So under our show notes, there’s place for comments. Please do leave your comment. I would love to really hear what you’re thinking about. Awesome. Jane, thanks so much all about sales, all about sales

Jane:

And I have a board point. Oh great. Okay. I’m ready. I’m ready to get out of your pants. Pull over if you’re driving. So the third point, the sales conversation, you’ve got to be committed to the process. So this is a little, a little similar to stop going for the close. You gotta be committed to the process. And here’s the thing. The number one thing that I always get asked when I’m serving on any kind of panel is how do I become a better closer? I’ve already talked to you about take the pressure off of yourself for the close. Here’s what I want to say about how do you become a better closer? You become a better opener. You open a space that is safe. You open an opportunity for people to speak their truth, to get to what I call, to get to the bottom of their nonsense and tell their truth.

Jane:

You open a dialogue that will allow somebody to feel that they can be vulnerable and show up fully authentic. You open that, open a space, open the dialogue, open a container that feels good to them. That feels like, Hey, somebody’s asking me questions. I’ve never been asked before somebody is listening to me in a way that I’ve never been listened to before. When you do that, you will never have to worry about closing again because the closing will actually take care of itself. And what I mean by that is they will start enrolling themselves. That’s actually my brand promise is you can stop closing, never closed again and have people enroll themselves. Here’s what I want you to know this whole concept of get everybody to the bottom of their nonsense so they can tell themselves the truth. Here it is. When you speak the truth, you can hear it.

Jane:

When you hear it, you can feel it. And when you feel it, you can own it. And it is in that moment of ownership of your truth, that decisions that are profound and positively affect your future will happen. They do not happen in confusion, and they do not happen in some semblance of kind of a mucky part of the truth. We as humans are masters at not telling ourselves the truth all the time we sugar coat it. We don’t want to go there. We don’t want to make ourselves feel bad. We stick our hands, head in the sands, maybe in denial, but we’re really good at telling ourselves a little bit of the truth and then sort of covering it up. So we don’t have to go into those dark crevices where the truth lives. Because ladies, the truth is really, really hard. Sometimes I’m talking about the truth that you need to tell yourself at night in the dark, when nobody can hear you.

Jane:

It is enormously challenging sometimes to tell yourself the flat out hardcore, no holds barred truth, but that it’s your job to make sure you’re doing that for you. And when you are able to do that for you, it is going to be much easier for you to help other people to get to their truth. We’ve got to get everybody there, start with you. But when you get to the truth, you hear it. When you hear it, you feel it. When you feel it, you can own it. And that’s the moment when somebody says, you know what? Yeah, I’m going to step into this. I’m going to say yes to your weight loss and nutrition program. I’m going to say yes to your marketing expertise because my business has got to turn around with some client generation. I’m going to say yes to ending my ongoing pain because I just can’t live like this anymore. Get them to the truth. Love them through that process. And you’ll never have to worry about a close again.

Pam:

Oh, collective sigh. Yeah. When you hear the truth, you feel it. And when you feel it,

Jane:

When you speak your truth, you

Pam:

See I’m making notes too.

Jane:

This is really, I can’t even tell you how life changing. This actually is like when I’ve got this concept and put myself through it. And I do put myself through it every single day, which is why I know telling yourself the truth is so hard. I cannot tell you the number of times when I actually said, this is it. This is the truth. Nobody’s hearing it. But me, it depends on what the truth is at the moment. I mean, the truth is the truth. How I feel about the truth. That sometimes is a different feeling. Sometimes when I speak my truth out loud, I just dissolve into tears. It’s so overwhelming. And there you go. Sometimes when I tell myself the real truth, I realized that I’m much angrier about something that I was allowing myself to be. I don’t go to anger first. Really?

Jane:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting angry. It’s a long road to anger with me. So for me to sit down and realize, this is my truth. And okay, now I’m feeling angry, really powerful. So yes, when you speak your truth, you will hear it. When you hear it, you will feel it. And when you feel it, you can own it. And in that moment of ownership is when you start making decisions that will have a profound and usually positive impact on your life. You go address the person kindly that made you angry or the situation that made you angry. You deal with the sadness because you’re feeling lost or loneliness or whatever the case may be. So speak it so you can hear it, hear it so you can feel it, feel it so you can own it. And then you’ll start making different decisions.

Pam:

We’re getting into psychology too. Well, you know, everything that we’re doing in business touches psychology. So that was really powerful for me. And you could tell I was taking notes too.

Jane:

It’s huge. That’s why I love sales. So much. People tend to think of sales conversation. Here’s how most people would describe a sales conversation. Okay. A sales conversation is when you engage with somebody else and you try to get them to buy from you. And I’m always like, wow, that is not even remotely, what it is. Why would we be? But we’ve been taught that we’ve been conditioned to do that and it’s not healthy. It’s just why, why would you want to talk anybody into doing anything? That’s why, when we hear, you know, I’ve got to do sales calls, you think immediately of the used car salesman, completely abolish that from your mind, we’re not talking anything. It’s really the opposite. It’s listening, hearing what really, what the problem is, deciding if you’re the perfect solution to it. And if you are, then you make your invitation, right?

Jane:

Yep. Yeah. One of the best things I could ever think of that if I could just stop my fingers and make it happen for everybody is when they looked at their calendar and they saw that they had discovery calls on them, they would say, Ooh, cool. I get to talk to these three amazing people today. Wonder what they’re like, wonder how they show up in the world. Wonder what they’re looking for. Wonder what makes them smile and makes them cry. I wonder who they are. I wonder if I may be able to serve them, how exciting I can’t wait to talk to these people today. And that’s where I finally got to. It took me about 10 years of my 20 year history in business, but that’s where I got to. So sales calls for me are really exciting because I get to meet new people and as you stay and learn all about them and see if I’m the best solution for them. Love it. Thanks Jane. Oh, I love it.

Jane:

Well, everyone now that you know what build relationships people. All right. Wow. So that was quite the episode. There was a lot of information in there. So I really want to give you all the time that you need to process and digest that what we’re going to do then is go ahead and leave this episode just on sales. And next episode, we will talk about leadership and team. For those of you who are interested in getting some additional support and training around the topic of sales, go to flourish.biz, that’s flourish, F L O U R I S h.biz B I Z. Go to flourish.biz and check out the four notes. Under this episode for sales, you’re going to find a link in there. It’ll say showstopping sales, click on that. And it will take you to a landing page where then you can enter in your email address.

Jane:

This means that you are now in the selling community, my sales community, and you’ll be able to receive free trainings. There’s some great downloads there available for you that are also additional trainings and just a lot of fun stuff. So flourish.biz. Find the show notes, click on the link in there. You’ll be all set up. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Jane you’re so right that sales, it is a big meaty topic. So we’re going to leave it at that until next time everyone, we want to say have yourself a great week and we’ll catch up.