Pam (00:00):

You’re listening to the flourish and grow to CEO podcast. This is episode 22.

Pam (00:26):

Are you a lady boss making 50 to a hundred thousand in your business? And you’re ready to break through that six figure barrier.

Jane (00:33):

Have you done a great job of creating a nice life as the ultimate gig master, but no, your inner CEO is calling you to greater Heights. You’re in the right place. If you want to create and implement solid fundamentals in your business without sacrificing fun.

Pam (00:48):

I’m Pam Ivey, I’m certified in small business management and I concentrate in the areas of training and certifying real estate assistance, coaching and mentoring entrepreneurs in online business, marketing growth and profit acceleration. And I take men and women business owners aged 40 plus two bucket list destinations around the world for a month at a time to work, explore, and live in community.

Jane (01:14):

And I’m Jane Garee, known as the sales strategist for the non-salesperson. And I work with business owners who want to increase their conversion rate, shorten their sales cycle and have more impact and influence with the work they do all while having fun with selling.

Pam (01:29):

I am so excited today to introduce you to someone who is going to simplify your life. Her name is Sarah Torpey. She’s a business coach with 20 years of experience working with both business owners and educators at Torpey Coaching. She works one-on-one with business owners to create thriving, profitable businesses, through simplicity, smart systems, and leveraging everything that is already working to create even more growth. Sarah is a multiple business owner, a teacher, a mom, and a wife. She knows what it’s like to wear all the hats and build an amazing business that you love at the same time. I love that Sarah is fueled by learning sunshine, teaching ice cream and helping clients to create their dreams. Now that sounds awesome. Welcome, Sarah. We’re so glad to have you. Thank you

Sarah Torpey (02:20):

Thank you. I’m so glad to be here.

Pam (02:23):

So, we have lots of questions for you today. Cause you’re like the simplicity, smarty pants and Jane and I are big proponents of simplicity. So how did you start this work and why is it so important to you?

Sarah Torpey (02:38):

Yeah, so this work, I feel like this work started on me a lot longer before I started on it, as I think it must happen to all of us on some level. I started life adult life actually as a math teacher and slowly but surely over the years of teaching and coaching. What I’ve discovered is that sort of the magic of good teaching and math is the ability to like strip away the noise and simplify it for kids. Right? That’s the most important thing is to like dial it down to just what really matters. And it occurred to me as I was building my first business, which I did by doing all the things all at once poorly. Essentially I did all the hard things, all the ways you did the, you know, you read the things that are like, you shouldn’t do the following five things.

Sarah Torpey (03:28):

And I was like, oh, I’m going to do all of those all at once. Yay. But what I realized over time was I could apply the same approach that I apply to a classroom to learning to business and make my life a whole ton easier, honestly, which was important because my kids are still young. We have dogs and kids and businesses and good Lord. And then slowly as I started to do that, people would friends, colleagues, friends of friends were like, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, how, what, what just happened here? How come you’re not like a crazy person right now. And so really helping just like I always did in a classroom. Like I am a teacher to my, the tips of my toes. I can’t be that girl try as I might sometimes. And it has been, I think, as I’ve seen, you know, you, what happens as you grow up with your friends and then everybody starts to get married and have kids and do all these things and watching my friends and people, I love really struggled to do it all all at once. Cause it’s, it’s hard and then start their own businesses and it gets harder. And knowing myself that I kind of found a way through that by simplifying has really, it’s become sort of my jam to be like, you know what? We don’t have to do this. Like this, it doesn’t have to be this hard.

Pam (04:48):

That’s cool. So that’s how you found your niche then, right?

Sarah Torpey (04:52):

Yes. Well partially. And then the rest of it sort of found me so many of the people I work with are people who used to be teachers are people who teach something. And to be quite honest, I could make the case that everyone’s a teacher. So that’s a different story, but I think it is very much, you know, finding my way through and helped me to figure out that, that simplicity and focus and persistence and sort of prioritizing are really the key things I teach. But also that, you know, eventually all of a sudden, halfway through the start of my coaching business, I looked around and it was like, oh, all the people are teachers, oh, doll where you kind of go like, oh wait, maybe I was the last one to realize what was happening here. So I think a lot of times I found it, but then, you know, it was like smacking me in the back of the head when I found it. So there, they

Pam (05:48):

Were formal teachers, they were like actual classroom teachers. Some

Sarah Torpey (05:51):

Yeah, some of my clients or people who were in classrooms or school buildings, but a lot were in what I think of as what art traditional teacher ways, but are still teaching to me like they homeschool or they, one was in corporate financial wellness. A lot of them have been in training in some way, shape or form at some point, or they’ve done, you know, like teaching things to other people, photography, fitness, yoga, whatever on the side that they, it was always in the background. And that was the thing they love to do sort of secretly.

Pam (06:24):

Oh, interesting. So how did you transition then out of being a math teacher and I love that you made it simple. Cause I had one finally in high school that made trigonometry and algebra super simple to me. So I still love it to this day weird, but we know we need more math teachers. So that will take the time to break it down into little simple steps. But what, what caused the transition from a math teacher to an entrepreneur

Sarah Torpey (06:55):

Accident, many accidents. Um, and, and now I think of them as accidents, but they were really, you know, somewhere in my heart, I believe the universe puts you on your path. Right? For me, I left school buildings when my husband’s job transferred about 11. Let’s see we’ve been here 11 years almost now. I had never anticipated leaving. And actually I was telling a story in, in a post recently about how a couple of weeks ago we drove by this school building that is not too far from here that 11 years ago, I thought it was going to be the solution to all my problems because it’s near our new house and I can remember applying and interviewing and then interviewing again and interviewing again and the not getting it and being heartbroken because I thought it was going to be the thing. And then shortly thereafter, I had a friend reach out who was in corporate and said, you know, we need somebody around where you live to help us do some consulting and some training.

Sarah Torpey (07:56):

And I was like, yeah, sure, whatever. And they were based in Chicago and he, they, I went out for a couple of days. They were like, just come out and talk to everybody. And I came home with a full-time job that in a billion years, if you had said Sarah, this week, are you going to get a full-time job in the corporate world? Are you going to be struck by lightning? I would have said like struck by lightning lightning every time, every time I couldn’t even talk about it. The first couple of days after I got home, my husband said what happened? And I was like, yeah, talk to me Monday. I can’t even like form sentences yet. And it turned into really coaching in that organization, coaching salespeople and team leaders and product developers and content creators, all kinds of people to actually talk to each others, but also talk to school people.

Sarah Torpey (08:43):

And then eventually I felt, you know, I had never intended to be there and I learned a ton and I loved the people, but it was still not exactly where I, but at that point I had ideas of businesses of my own. So I started my first business as I left there, which is in the education space and went back to teaching part-time I still teach college kids. Part-time like the first day of summer semester is today. So my email is filled with panicked college kids right now. And then in the process of building my first business and doing all the things wrong and finding my way people started to ask for help. And then, you know, as a friend said to me, you’re an idiot, that’s the second business. And so off we went,

Pam (09:30):

But it is just amazing how things go like that. Right? It is

Sarah Torpey (09:34):

Well, and I, I, we joke, I’m always the last to know isn’t that the truth

Jane (09:42):

Is such, um, simplicity is not so simple to define. It’s not such a simple term. So what I’m wondering Sarah is how would you define simplicity?

Sarah Torpey (09:53):

Hmm. That’s a great question. So for me, simplicity is really the straightest path with the most joy. That’s good. And it really is about, you know, what’s the next one thing I can do. What’s the most important thing I can do. And what are the things that I don’t need to worry about because they don’t actually make a dent. Yeah. We always have, like, if I look at my, to do list for the week, there’s a billion things on there right now, or really what matters more than any of them are like four, four things really need to get done in knowing that I can feel good. Like all the things are not going to get checked off and that’s fine, but if it’s fun and it’s, you know, the things that really matter first, then it’s all going to be okay.

Jane (10:49):

Yeah. That’s a really great concept. And I actually wrote that down. Simplicity is the straightest path with most joy and then talking about eliminating the things that really don’t matter. And one of the topics I’ve been hot after for the past several weeks when I ended a post about this on, uh, on social media was fighting for what matters. And I talked about the, the real necessity of being very, very clear in what it is that you want and then therefore what it is that you don’t want. So that when opportunities arise, it’s easy to say yes or no to them because you’re only going to fight for what matters. And so I love that this concept of simplicity fits right into that because really when things are simple, we can fight for them. I think it’s when they become very convoluted and stressful, then all of a sudden it’s kind of like you’re fighting for everything and, and when there’s too much going on, nothing gets done.

Sarah Torpey (11:41):

Agreed. Yes. Well, and actually right in line with that, one of the things I do constantly that I constantly talk about, I think my clients was like, I’m a nut, um, is that I really do fundamentally believe that we should only have one goal at a time because it really like if you have three goals right now, how do you choose which of the things on your to-do list matter most, right. Like they’re always in competition and you’re always sort of cannibalizing one to the other, but if you can roll it up and really just have one focal point, then that whole game of like, what do I really want here gets so much more straightforward and less convoluted and less complicated. Woo.

Jane (12:26):

What advice would you give people then? If, if, if you’re, are you saying just have one don’t even have a professional goal and a personal goal simultaneously choose one? Or what, can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Sarah Torpey (12:37):

Yeah. I think of it as like one goal per bucket, honestly. And so for me, that means in my coaching business, there’s one focus right now. It means in my personal life, there’s one focus. It means in my, and honestly I don’t get much more past that, honestly, because I can’t hold onto more than two goals at once. And, and that’s the other thing, like if you have three or four goals, I find like, can you really focus on any of them? You know, it’s when you set it the first day of the month and three days later, somebody says to you, what’s your goal right now? And you’re like, hang on, let me go get my notebook. Like that’s not a good time. Yeah.

Jane (13:17):

So you just naturally the opposite of the squirrel personality. No,

Sarah Torpey (13:25):

Absolutely not. That’s my morning, my morning today is proof that I am, I am my own squirrel, but I think that what I’ve learned over the years is to really regularly check in with myself. And I am constantly like I have to, it was funny. I was thinking about this conversation earlier today and I have two questions that I ask myself all the time. And the first is what’s the simplest way forward. Like I have this problem I want to solve. I have this thing I want to do. I have this thing I want to build. What is the simplest way forward from here? And then the other question I constantly ask is is this the most important thing I can be doing right now,

Pam (14:10):

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Sarah Torpey (15:10):

Every time I change tasks, I think like, is this the thing that matters most right now? Is this moving me closer to my goal? Because if it’s not it, or if the answer, my favorite is, I’ll say that to people like, is that the most important thing right now? And people will be like, whoa, maybe like then it’s no, if it’s not a yes, it’s a no, there’s no gray there. There’s no gray

Jane (15:34):

There. Yeah. So this, this is really interesting. And it’s a topic that’s so important as business owners, because I constantly find myself sort of asking, is this the most important thing I can be doing right now? And sometimes the answer is yes, but it’s a weird thing. So for example, this morning I got up and I went to go work out first. And normally I don’t do that until later on in the day, but it just felt like the thing that I needed to do. And the entire time I was doing the workout, I kept thinking I should be creating my email content. I should be picking up that phone and making phone calls. I should be. So it was kind of this internal struggle because I really felt, I just really felt like the most important thing that I could be doing was doing this workout this morning. Cause I just wanted to clear my head. So what kind of advice would you give to people who are having that internal struggle, where it feels like the thing that they’re doing feels like the most important, but it probably shouldn’t be that kind of conversation.

Sarah Torpey (16:33):

Yeah. I, and I get that entirely, I think. And I will say that has been one of the things I’ve had to work hardest at, in the last year, right? The pandemic being home. I had little kids home. I had, we all had all the things. I would say what I have learned, what I’m learning. I can’t say that I’m really great at it yet. I’m really practicing it is, is what am I modeling? So like, if I would say to a client, Hey, if, if the best thing for you today in that moment is to go do your workout and take care of you first. That’s what you should do. If am I also willing to do that? Am I willing to give myself as much grace as I’m giving other people? And that’s really hard, right. But I think that I have started to practice more of that.

Sarah Torpey (17:31):

And when I go do things like that, cause actually Monday mornings, oftentimes I work out first at the start of my day and today we have painters here. And so that didn’t happen. And my brain is like, wait, but what happened? Where it’s our schedule. But you know, today I sort of rolled differently in my brain, freaked out in the opposite direction of yours. And I thought like, okay, but what advice would I give to this other person that is me right now? I’d say, everything’s fine. You have a workout time built in later. Everything’s okay. It all gets done. You have to take care of you.

Jane (18:07):

Yeah. I think this concept of being willing to do for ourselves, what we are more than willing to do for others is a really big shift. Because when you shift over into that life just starts to look a little bit different. You know, I will never forget. I was having a very heart to heart conversation years and years and years ago with one of my friends. And I was just beating myself up. You know, it was one of those, one of those great moments in every woman’s life where I should, I wish I can. I won’t. I did. I bet. Hey, you know, I just like, I couldn’t have been more mean to myself. And when I was all finished, she looked at me and she said, you know, you are very intolerable of a lot of behaviors that you have no problem extending grace and mercy to and for other people when they do it, what’s that about. And I never, I’ve never forgotten that because I think that’s so true. And as women, we’re natural multitaskers, so we’re running the business and we’re taking care of families or we’re taking care of friends or what we’re doing, all of these things. And the question then becomes, are we willing to extend the kind of grace and mercy to ourselves and be intuitive about giving ourselves what it is that we most need in the moment, because we sure have no problem doing it for other people.

Sarah Torpey (19:20):

I think like the internal conversation I have with myself sometimes is well, but I have things I want to accomplish well, but like I can well by myself to death. And I think that part of the thing that really has helped me shift that is if I can extend that grace to myself then in the sounds crazy, but the universe will know that I am capable of being kind to myself while I do all these other things that I can be kind to myself and grow a business that I can be kind to myself and raise kids that I can be kind to myself and teach. And then I think the universe is more willing to send you opportunity and to open up new things. If you can show yourself that grace, like I have grown more as a business owner by, you know, working out during the day sometimes than I ever did by pounding against my desk for 10 hours, because I am, it’s more of a, I get more of the space. I need to actually think like human being instead of torturing myself.

Jane (20:40):

So in light of all that, what do you think is the biggest challenge that people have that keeps them in complication and chaos rather than simplicity?

Sarah Torpey (20:47):

I think it, honestly, for the people I work with four friends, colleagues, all of them, most of the people I know, I think it is that it’s the noise out in the world. So I think that it’s really hard to be in the world that is online business and Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram and all of these places because there is this constant flow of a million ways to do everything coming at us. Right. And it’s hard because if I said to you like, okay, you’re going to build an email list. And I went out to the internet and said, okay, how do I build an email list? I could find a hundred ways that everybody says is the right way. And they’re all completely different. And you’re like, oh God. And I know for me, as a, as a teacher, as someone who really likes to learn, I could very easily go right down that rabbit hole and learn all 100 ways and never do anything myself.

Sarah Torpey (21:50):

And I think it gets really hard to see the noise out there and to filter through it. But also then to not go like, oh wait, but she’s doing it like that. Should I do it like that? Like, those are the rules in her business. If that’s what really works, then I should have the same rules in my business. Of course, if she’s not working Fridays, then I shouldn’t work Fridays and all of the shoulds and shouldn’ts, and oh my goodness, the judgment that comes from all of that. And then it gets really complicated because you’re no longer you can’t hear yourself anymore. Yeah.

Jane (22:28):

So it’s that combination of really tapping into your intuition, what works for you. And, uh, and I’m going back to the definition that you provided, which was what is the straightest path to most joy and the example that you just used about looking at another person’s business and saying, well, this is what they’re doing and they’re successful. So therefore I should be one of my dearest, dearest friends. She and I probably for the better part of an entire year argued with each other over those to the point where it was really seriously kind of getting contentious, not just ha here’s my point of view because we were, we were both taking this stance for what individually was right for our business. And the situation was because of her personal life and her schedule and, and her family and her background and Andy and Dan, you know, all of her situational circumstances, she is, is a huge believer in that you take business when business shows up.

Jane (23:24):

And if you have to answer the phone at 2:00 AM, that’s what you do. And if you have to work weekends, that’s what you do. And so that’s how she lives. And she loves that and she’s grown a really successful business, but I was kind of frustrated one day with my schedule. And I said, I just really don’t like working Fridays, especially in the summers because it’s, you know, I live in, uh, I live in the Midwest, so boating season, it’s swim season. It’s like, I want to get out of here. And she started preaching at me again. And it wasn’t the first time I’d heard this, but you got to take businesses where businesses, if you work every Friday and every weekend in the summer, that’s what you do. That’s what successful business owners do. And I just remember being so angry and so frustrated.

Jane (24:02):

And I really, I had to get off the phone and I really had to think about that because unintentionally and I’m owning this, it wasn’t her, but unintentionally, I was now feeling very, very guilty because I was unwilling to throw over my summer and work like a dog. I’ve just never answered the phone at 2:00 AM because some country on the other side of the world needs to reach me. And that’s when it works for them. Like that is just not who I am. So what I really learned from that is number one, I had to go back in and have a more in-depth conversation and really ask why, why are you running your business this way? Why? And when she explained to me in more depth her schedule and what was important to her, and this goes to what you were talking about, Sarah is what’s the straightest path to most joy, her situation in the background.

Jane (24:48):

It actually made sense for her to work all weekend or at two in the morning or whatever, because of the way she had structured the rest of her life, which she did to make the rest of her life a priority. And so it was just, it was a great exercise in, I don’t have to feel guilty because I’m not working every weekend or I don’t have to feel guilty when I say to clients, no, I really don’t have consultations before 10:00 AM. You know, because I’m not, I don’t love talking to people in the morning. I need to get going first. Um, that is simplicity for me because that is the straightest path to most joy.

Sarah Torpey (25:22):

Well, and that’s exactly. And I think that we, what happens right, is we have friends and they’re like, well, this is how I do it. And you think like, okay, that really seems to have worked for them. And then we decide it’s a rule of some sort, like we decide we’ll of course that’s how it quote unquote works. Yes,

Jane (25:43):

Yes. It’s works. Yeah.

Sarah Torpey (25:46):

And so actually I was in a, like a, a business mastermind earlier in the year, which was amazing. It was filled with amazing people in like amazing businesses, people doing all kinds of things. And, you know, a couple months in, I had sorta felt like I lost my way and I couldn’t figure out what was going on. And it was like, well, she does it like this. Well, she doesn’t like this. Well, she doesn’t like this and they’re all doing amazing. So I have to do all those things. And all of a sudden I caught myself and I was like, oh, I’m trying to follow their rules and do my thing. Hold on. And actually sat down. I sat myself down and took like half a day and wrote my own rules and, and felt a thousand times better. And they’re up on my wall in my office. And now when I feel myself like, Ooh, should I do it like that? I look at the rules and think like, okay, does this fit?

Jane (26:39):

So here’s what I wrote down. I’m this is so great. I’m taking all these notes. Cause I’m, I’m the opposite of simple. I crave it and I’m I’m squirreled on steroids, you know? So one of the things I wrote down from there was change the narrative in my head from that’s how it works too. That’s how I work. And that is kind of literal and figurative in this moment because how I work, it’s not all Friday, all day, Friday, and all over the weekend. And it really at any given moment, but certainly not in the summer. And so how do I work? I work Monday through Thursday during the summer, I work from a certain time to not, I, you know, so changing the narrative from that’s how it works, which is comparing to spare based on what somebody else is doing and moving, moving, just changing that sentence. So that’s how I work. I think that’s really powerful.

Sarah Torpey (27:31):

Yes. Well, and I think like having that quote unquote, the way it works, sort of implies there’s a right way. Right. And that’s that like background judgment thing. And I like, as a, as a girl that liked to get good grades, I would like to be the, a student I would like to do it the right way. So if you would just tell me the right way, I would definitely do that. And so I default to like, well, am I doing it right? And then I have to catch myself and think like, okay, there’s no, right. So if there’s no right, how do I want to do it? What would be fun? What would bring me joy? Like how would I do this? And I have a, I’m working on a project with a friend right now and every now and then she’ll say, okay, the way this is done is, and I’ll say, okay, well I’m doing a, B and C, but that D step I’m totally not doing ever. So let’s figure out another way to do that. Cause it’s just not me. And I’m becoming more and more protective of what it looks like for Sarah to run a business then for a business to be run by Sarah.

Jane (28:33):

Yeah. That’s a, that’s a really important distinction too. So what do you think the biggest challenges that most people have that keeps them in complication and chaos rather than simplicity?

Sarah Torpey (28:44):

I think it gets the noise. I think it’s not listening to themselves and not noticing that they’re not listening to themselves. Yeah. And then I think the other thing that is very hard is that we do want to do it. Right. We come, when it’s your own business, you’re really tied to it. Right. You really want it to work. And so it becomes this like, okay, well, whatever it is I have to do, like you were saying, well, if I have to do it at 2:00 AM, I will. But then you hate doing it at 2:00 AM. So you’re miserable. And then the whole thing is miserable and that’s just like a slow cyclone to being misery and that’s, and it just sort of perpetuates itself. Right. And there’s no joy there. And then suddenly it’s like, well, this didn’t work. And I hated it. So I never want to do this again. Yeah.

Jane (29:34):

That was the factory. I was, I was feeling like I really was feeling that in my gut as well, if I have to, I, but then I was thinking that quickly, very quickly turns into me for it. If I don’t love it, I won’t do it. So I have to, I will becomes, no, I’m not going to do this. And now you’re in shutdown mode.

Sarah Torpey (29:54):

Exactly. And then you’re in then, you know, six months down the line and you’re like, nothing is working like, well, yeah, because the structure built here, wasn’t going to work because you don’t like it and you’re not going to do it if you don’t like it. And then this whole, there’s lots of hand gestures that go with this, by the way, you just can’t see them. Um,

Jane (30:17):

Number one, but it’s not that it’s not the index finger you’re using

Sarah Torpey (30:22):

God, am I talk with my hands all the time? I can’t help it. And I’m sitting here doing it on audio. Awesome. So, and it’s so between the noise and that and wanting to do it right. And then, you know, I think that so often we, you know, and this is normal. We all expect more of ourselves than we would ever, ever expect out of any other human being. And I’m down with high expectations. Like I taught kids, I have a high expectations are like the research is there, the higher, the expectations, the, the more kids will grow. I’m all for them. But also at the same time not being mean to myself about it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a trick. That is

Jane (31:09):

A trick. That is a trick. So that’s great. That would really lead us into our last question. And we always like to give everybody something that’s a concrete takeaway that they can actually do. So what are the top three things that someone can implement immediately to experience more simplicity?

Sarah Torpey (31:25):

Yup. So I would say the first one that I talk with people a lot about is doing what I call a noise diet. This is the best version of a diet. It’s hard though for the first three or four days. So I often suggest to people when I can see, you can almost see it in people where there’s just so much input that they don’t know which way is up anymore. So I suggest, and I don’t, I suggest generally that they turn off the podcast and the Facebook messages and the courses and the what have you. I just, you know, 10 to 14 days and that’s it. And then you can come back to them. And most people do slowly, but just to give yourself enough space that you can hear yourself again, most of the time, the first three or four days, like the first three or four days that you’re stopping anything or really uncomfortable, like the fourth day, you’re like, well, I’m just going to listen to this one thing, hold on.

Sarah Torpey (32:26):

But I wonder how she would do it. Like just this, let it go for a little while, enjoy the quiet. And then when you have that quiet space, you can go back to asking yourself some of the really important questions, you know, what’s the simplest path forward. One of the other ones I ask myself all the time is what problem am I actually trying to solve right now? Because I think so often we get to the spot where we’re doing and we forget why or the problem we’re trying to solve was never particularly clear. And so we get sort of 16, 16 steps down the path and you’re like, wait, why am I here? Why did I just buy this tool? Hmm. What is this course going to teach me again? I know all this stuff. So it’s to turn down the noise way, way far to start asking yourself really simple, but really direct questions about it. And then to choose sort of reset into what is the one thing that matters most right now, if I only get what one goal, what is it?

Jane (33:33):

Yeah. What is the one thing? That’s the whole, the whole concept on that. Oh yeah. That’s beautiful. This has been really great. Sarah, thank you so much.

Sarah Torpey (33:42):

Oh my gosh. Thank you guys so much for having me. It was lovely.

Jane (33:45):

Yeah. So this is the flourish and grow podcast. So when Sarah was talking about, put yourself on the noise diet, except for this podcast, but listen to this and Sarah, we just really appreciate your wisdom so much. It was, it was really great. Thank you for sharing your time and your talent with us.

Sarah Torpey (34:03):

Oh gosh. Thank you guys so much for having me. It’s such a treat to be able to share all this stuff. The teacher in me is always like, yes. Talk to more people.

Jane (34:11):

Well, we really are all teachers. It’s so true. So, all right, everybody. Thank you for joining us and we will see you or hear you or engage with you on the next podcast.

Pam (34:22):

Well, that’s a wrap everyone. Thanks for joining us this week on the flourish and grow to CEO podcast. Be sure to visit our website at [inaudible] dot biz. That’s F L O U R I S h.biz, where you can subscribe to the shows in iTunes, Stitcher, or via RSS. So you’ll never miss an episode. You can also find our show notes and resources there too. And while you’re at it, if you found value in this show, we’d love for you to leave a rating on iTunes. Or if you’d simply tell a friend about the show that would sure help us out too. Now get out there and flourish!